The mainframe's 40+ year history is something of an anomaly in an industry that tends to glorify the Next New Thing. As a result, mainframers tend to be among the most experienced IT workers. Yet efforts are underway to attract a newer generation to modern mainframe careers. I'm curious how many of the visitors to this site are ultra-experienced? Ultra-new? Somewhere in between?
Click reply in the bottom right corner to list your mainframe years. (As a bonus, you'll earn a whopping 10 status points in the community for your answer.)
List your years of experience below. Can anyone beat 35? Anyone have less than five years of experience? Remember, if you don't see the Reply button, you will need to log in or register to post.
Hello Kim,
Well, I can't say over 40 years, but on the way with 35 years.
Dave.
Hi Dave,
That's an impressive number of years. Anyone have Dave beat?
Hi,
I have around 7 years of experience....still a long way to go.
Hi Vatsalraicha,
Seven years definitely puts you near the start of your career. How did you get involved in the mainframe world? Do you find that you tend to be the junior member of the mainframe team? Or are others on your team on the relatively new to mainframes as well?
Hi Kim,
Yeah others are relatively new in my team. I happen to be one of the senior team members here ![]()
Vatsal
Hey, a young mainframe team. Reminding everyone that stereotypes are just that.
I have 30 years of Mainframe experience. Regardless of the new invonations and integartions of technology, the concepts from 30 years ago still apply. I've kept up with technology and it continues to amaze me how much my mainframe experience comes into play.
I have 12 years of mainframe experience...
So we've got 7, 12, 30, and 35 years. Anyone out there brand new (1-2 years)? And we're still looking for someone to beat 35 years.
Maybe I should have mentioned that my 12 years are not with IBM machines, but with Unisys...
That's okay, it still counts!
it look like iam the only begginer here . because i have only 1 year an half![]()
Hi, Light,
Yes, so far you are the newest newbie speaking up. Welcome! I hope you find the info you need to keep your new mainframe career on track.
Best,
Kim
Hi Kim,
I'm new to this mainframe world with 14 months of experience in TOPSECRET and RACF .. Long way to go !!!!
Regards,
Madhu
Some over the past couple years, mostly with CA-7, then there is a gap of, let's see, 17 years back to my days as a junior operator, tape librarian, and print queue manager, which did intermittently over 4 years.
Wow, I'd be interested in hearing how you landed back in the mainframe world after such a sizeable hiatus.
A project to connect Autosys and CA-7 for cross-platform scheduling. It was interesting how my old knowledge of screen navigation, command syntax, and that little lightning bolt symbol all came back onceI logged into the mainframe.
I did get it working, just a couple months before the requirement for the project went bankrupt.
Working on a mainframe is just like riding a bike--you never forget how? Thanks for sharing your story here.
Hi ,
Am with 3 years of Mainframes Exp. Since all these 3 years am working as a CICS System Programmer.
Am one of the Trinee in IBM's Building new generation of MF technicians. And am glad to ride the MF bike. lol
I feel so exciting to work on CICS. Thanks to IBM.
Congratulations, Rakesh. Just curious, do you call yourself a CICS (pronounced kicks) programmer or a CICS (pronounced see eye see ess) programmer? I know we could have a whole separate discussion about that!
Yep, we can open new blog for that. We supposed to call it as see eye see yes(CICS). But for convinient people call it KIKS.
Hi Kim,
I'm 25 years in mainframe most in CICS using LU 6.2 communication protocol, a lot of pseudo conversational BMS program, VSAM access and DB2, but the most exciting project, was one that I decided to try to put the browser accessing the mainframe via the DOCUMENT interface, and another one, was one that I develop 10 years ago, to access CICS transactions via Batch programs.
And I like very much to use CEDX to debug programs, don't you like?
Forgive for my mistakes, but I'm Portuguese, and I don't know a lot of English Grammar.
And here in PortugaL we say "see cs" instead of "Kics"
Congratulations on your long career, and please forgive the assumption of American English pronunciation built into the C-I-C-S comment!
A few months over the 24 years mark.... not long now for the quarter century milestone...
![]()
You'll be in good company--looks like the quarter-century club is well represented here.
Total, 27 years. Wrote first Fortran program on cards. Started sending 'IM' messages from VM as "TELL" shortly thereafter and Emails as "NOTE".
First mainframe I programmed on was an IBM 360/30 while in a then experemental high schoo class in 1967.
So yes I have over 40 years of experience and then some!
My first lanuage was called NOBIS which stood for
Numerical Orientated Basic Instruction System
It was the 360 RX instruction set coded in external hex.
The 360 needed to be rebooted for each program run with a card IPL deck.
It was also my first PMR
The official first programing assignment was a simple payroll calculation like
netpay = grosspay - deductions.
It bored me so I wrote a program to calculate square roots using a newton rapislon progression.
Unfortunetly the divide instruction was optional on eary machines and not well understood
Who would of guessed that integer RX divide needed 2 registers and they had to be an odd even pair.
It took a couple of weeks for IBM to get back to us by mail with the trick.
In 1968 I enrolled in a collage programming course at Marquette University in Milwaukee Wi and learned Fortran on an IBM 7070 also known as the Strech.
Started at UW madison in 69 and mostly programed on a Univac 1108.
Just to mention some database stuff
Learned IMS in 1971.
I was world wide IMS 360 support for Amdahl in the late 70's
Part of the original Omegamon IMS development team in the early 80's
I am the father of Omegamon DB2 (Started the project and hired the first dedicated DB2 developer)
Author / developer of many IMS and DB2 products that are still alive and well.
My spelling is pretty bad by the way (if you did not notice), my coding skills are worse.
Avram Friedman
Wow, Avram, impressive! We're very pleased to have you as part of the community. Thanks for sharing your rich history here.
And now you can now add mainframe-experience champion of this discussion to your long list of accomplishments--at least until a challenger emerges.
Anyone?
Well, I first started with mainframes in 1971, at ICL - International Computers Ltd - the great British white hope, where I learned to program in a low-level language called PLAN. Then at IBM UK, where I did various jobs, including working in customer education teaching KICKS (see above!), and ended up as the senior systems engineer responsible trying to encourage customers to buy products and consultancy to help move their "legacy" applications into the new world.
Most of it was very good fun, with wonderful colleagues. I took early retirement in 2000, so I guess that gives me 29 years.
Hi Herb,
Are you still retired? Once a mainframer, always a mainframer, right? I think I'm definitely going to have to start that "Kicks" vs. "See Eye (or EE, for our international community) See Ess" discussion.
Anyway, thanks for coming out of retirement to share your story!
In 1981 I started on (Honeywell) Bull mainframes. In 1986 I switched to IBM. So that's 28 years in total. Time flies when you're having fun.
I've been a DB2 DBA for 11 years now.
still, other DBAs make fun of me just because I never knew what it was like to work without the DATE data type. :-)
Maybe they're jealous?
I started in 1968 on a 360/20 - 8k main memory, 4 tape drives, card punch and card reader. Those were the days. I have worked as a systems programmer, programmer, DBA, and now doing security evaluations.
Wow, Lynn, so you and Avram are nearly tied for the top spot in most years of experience (Avram gets a teeny edge for having started in high school). What do you see where you work in terms of recruiting a new generation should the veterans decide to retire? The vast majority of folks answering here have more than 10 years experience, though even they sound like novices compared with the 25, 30, 35, 40+ numbers popping up on the list. Any newbies on your team?
hi Kim,
i start working on a system IBM 3090 in the 1990 ... therefore they are nearly 20 years
Hi Linux68,
Is it silly for me to ask if you're using Linux on the mainframe? If so, when did you start? There's a whole separate discussion about zLinux going on here if you want to take a look.
Kim
No, i don't use Linux ... my name is Lino ... and some friends call me Linux .. so i use this nickname
bye
Hi Lino,
I guess that's a reminder never to assume anything!
Kim
Hai kmoutsos,
I am having 3 Years of experience on mainframes.I am working in India in Syntel company.
What abt u? how much exp do u have?
Hi Megamunna,
Nice to have another new voice joining in. You asked about my mainframe experience. I've never worked on a mainframe, I've only read, edited, and written about people who do. I've been doing that since 1998, when I joined the staff of DB2 Magazine (more recently known as IBM Database Magazine). In other words, the folks in this community are the real experts, I'm the friendly facilitator!
Kim
Hi There,
I have 31 years in the mainframe industry - as a customer and IBM'er...started on a 370/145 running DOS R34 and then onto OS/VS1 R5 and finally to MVS 3.8 in the early 80's. Storage and Storage Management are what I'm doing now.
Scott
35 years, 3 months, 20 days (or thereabouts)...
Started at a bank in Chicago, writing PL/I (still a bigot) and IMS DB/DC (actually worked with one of the authors of IMS). Picked up DB2 in early 80's (V1.2). Still playing with IMS, DB2, VSAM, WLM, and the rest of the mainframe 'stable'.
Mike
Hi Kim,
If you ignore the three years ICL at school in the 70s my IBM Mainframe experience started in 1989 May. COBOL/DB2 then APS (Now called Microfocus AMB) along with C/370 and REXX, CLIST JCL ISPF Dialog and of course CICS. In fact I have just finished my first sockets listener for CICS and written the Windows code to talk to it so there is life in the mainframe yet.
I thought this was interesting because the average age in our office is over 40 and the biggest risk to keeping things on the mainframe seems to be the complete lack of investment in training young people in how to use them.
Regards
Pete
That shortage of new faces in the mainframe world is a theme that comes up over and over again. Look at this list alone and you'll see how few people are in the less than 5 (or even 10) years of experience category. On the plus side of that thought, look at all the highly experienced folks we have contributing here--lots to learn from each other.
Thanks for posting (and thanks, too, to the other folks who've chimed in here lately--that's you Scott, Mike, and sslrv).
I've been working on the MF since 1980 - which means 29 years. I started coding ISPF dialog, then CICS SYSTEMS programming, in the old macro level assembler days, anyone remember those TCT tables which took 3 hours to assemble ? in the last 12 years I've picked up MQSeries and DB2
Done pretty much everything in between too - To work on the MF at a system level you must know everything (network, OS, application support, coding, JCL, utils, debugging, CICS, MQ, database, interfaces, etc. etc.)
I see people now work at the help desk a year, 1 years later they are desktop, two years later Windows Admins that make similiar bucks as the ole MF sys progs.
These people are clueless (hate to say it but it's true - reboot)
You don't even have to speak english to get a job as a help desk jockey let alone be technical!! If today's generation had to learn the mainframe they would be lost, especially since there is no translation for assembler and JCL, you have to know english!!!!
I'm working on mainframes since more than 30 years in Germany and Switzerland. Last year we founded a new company called "European Mainframe Academy" to educate new mainframers.
Wolfram
It's been years since I've worked on a mainframe, but from about 1970 (IBM 7040) through 1992 (IBM 360s, 370s, 3080s, 3090s, 43xx) I either programmed on them, programmed them, or managed development of systems for them including OS/MFT, OS/MVT, VM/370, VM/SP & HPO (and a little project called "HPO/XA"), VM/XA, VM/ESA, ImagePlus, and Visual Info. Obviously, most of the operating system work was either in assembler or PL/S (the internal PL/1 variant for OSs). Some of my fondest memories were the days spent managing VM Design....
Those were the days.... ![]()
Karl.
Welcome, Karl and Wolfram, glad to have your voices here.
Kim
Hello all,
I haven't touched a MF in a couple of years, but started back in 1987. So 22 Years!
Dan
But you have to admit mainframers are fun!
Absolutely. Anyone who wants proof of that should visit the CICS vs. Kicks discussion. Lots of fun (and puns) going on over there.
Hey I am on here too!!!
Joe (ponygt65)
Yes, you are. Hello, Joe!
Had my first mainframe experience in 1973 so I'm looking at roughly 25 years. Some of those were hybird years working with mulitple platforms: mainframe, mid-range and PCs. There were also a few gaps.
Check the math, that would be 36 years from 1973.
As I noted there were periods of time when I didn't deal with mainframes so I can't count the whole time from 1973.
I have 34 years of mainframe experience starting with RJE operations in 1975.
How about 37? I graduated from the old Control Data Institute in January of 1972 and soon after started work as an operator on an old, old IBM 1401. It was soon replaced with an IBM 360-20. I hope I'm not the oldest.
Hi Razubia,
You're definitely not the oldest (or at least not the most experienced), but you're definitely in the upper echelon in terms of career length. Welcome!
Kim
How many well put it this way I started with PDP 11/45-50s.
I had to look that one up. I'm going to say you're among those who started in the 1970s, as the information I found dates PDP 11/45-50 to 1972. Another impressively lengthy career.
Hi All,
I am having 3 yrs of experience in mainframes, I am familiar with the tools CA7,CA11,CA-Jobtrac, I am looking for an help to grow my career in mainframe system programming. I am looking for guidance, directions to step up my career in technical. can you please tell me about the cerifications on CA product..
my mail id is : praneshselvam@gmail.com
Hi Everyone,
I was reading this forum and surprised to see there are mainframe expert who is having 40+ year and it nice to know about that.
I am from India working with HSBC Pune as software developer in mainframe.
Well answer to question is I am having only 4 year of experience in mainframe development ,mainly working on cobol,db2,jcl,cics,vsam.
How would like to know about future of mainframe technology ?
Hi Chechani,
Welcome aboard--it's nice to hear from another relative newcomer to the mainframe. I would definitely welcome your thoughts on the future of mainframe technology.
Best,
Kim
Hi Kim -
I have been working on the 'enterprise server' platforms continuously since 1974, so that makes it 35 years. My experience with IMS has been almost that long. I have been inthe database management area for 25 years, Supporting IMS and DB2. The shop where I work is still developing applications using IMS. They run their z-box flat out and regularly push it to 100% utilization,so I am constantly working on tuning database applications and managing the environment to get everything out of it.
I ti is good to see all the responses here. I plan to keep myself in good health as I expect there will be a lot of demand for my experience in 10 years and young talent is not there.
Believe it or not - I have been selling mainframes since 1975 and not for IBM either, originally Burroughs and now Unisys. Most people thought the mainframe was dead - not quite - our MIP shipments are up 32% this year. I'm sure IBM is running at that growth rate as well. There is only 2 of us left.
Hi,
I have 2 years of experience in mainframe. I am looking for ESP Report generation process here as we migrated from CA7 schdeuler to ESP.
All I want to generate a report using the ESP tool in the following fomat of
List of jobs restarted successfully List of jobs force completed List of jobs cancelled
While we were using CA7, we used to have SARBTCH program for extracting all these informations.
But after migrating to ESP, we are much conused about report generations.
Please help me as I have more enthusiasm to do things differently.
Thanks a lot in advance
Hi ranb,
Welcome, and thanks for your question on CA ESP. I am hopeful that one of the many experienced mainframers here will have an answer for you.
Best,
Kim
Hi,
I've over 15 years of experience with the IBM mainframe technology.
15 years definitely keeps you in the "kid" category, CrazyKid.
Welcome!
Kim
Kim,
With the all the new technology IBM has been incorporating into the Mainframe environment, everyday feels like a kid learning something new!! Some of the old CICS (C-I-C-S) programs exposed as web services surprise many web developers with their performance!
There are extensive ESP History reporting fields where you can get this information. Reports can be run in the Workstation, in ESP Page mode or in Batch. Here are some suggestions on Criteria fields to use.
CMPC=S222 for Cancelled Jobs
RRJOBNO > 0 and MAXRC = 0 for succesfully restarted job
Then I believe there is a field called FORCED to find jobs that were forced complete. If you want to know WHO issued that command, you can find that information in the Auditlog.
There are many former CA 7 users in the customer base that are now using ESP. There is a separate Customer Forum and an ESP Listserv where these customers frequently communicate.
Hello Kim,
I'm too young, I'm afread ... I wrote my first PL/1 Program in 1971 on IBM S/370-145 ...
Until 2005 (when our firm migrate to UNIX) I had the honour to program on IBM 4341, 3090, 9672 G5, 2064 ...
They may excuse me, if I forgot some ...
Now I'm very annoying, that I can't try a z10 with the famous 4.4 GHz quad core CPU!
Sincerely yours,
emil
Well, Emil, have hope--maybe your career will take a turn toward that famous z10 one day. In the meantime, you can live vicariously through the experiences of others on this site. Thanks for sharing the picture.
Best,
Kim
Well...define "experience". I started using an IBM System/360 (a 75 and a 44, plus a 370/158) in about 1973. I started being paid for it in 1980.
Okay, I'm curious. What were you doing for those 7 unpaid years--school, internship ... ?
Faculty brat, hacking at various job entry systems and then VM/370 on a University system. Learned to program by reverse-engineering a game.
This was starting around middle school; I sat in on my dad's programming class the summer after 8th grade, which was a Big Deal back then -- got me a heck of a leg up. Started first programming job January 2, 1980.
Those were the days...!
Logged onto my first virtual machine on June 23, 1976, so that is 33 years, 5 months, 8 (?) days.
/Tom Kern
I'm impressed that you remember the actual date, TLKern. A momentous occasion, for sure.
It was two days after starting work at the NASA Goddard Institiute for Space Studies. My first job based on what I had been learning in college.
/Tom Kern
Hi,
I am new to mainframe and has no experience on it, as of now I support san / storage and looking forward to be an mainframe storage admin.
I am here to get some guidence on how / where can I get that skillset and then job.
Not sure if I am at the right place... please do let me know.
Thanks
Ganesh
Hi Ganesh,
Welcome, and good luck on your career plans. Is there a mainframe team where you work? You might want to start by making friends with that team and letting them know of your interest. You might find advice and opportunities that way. Anyone else have a suggestion for how to break into the mainframe realm?
Kim
Welcome, Pankaj. Hope you find the assembled expertise of the community useful as you go forward with your relatively new mainframe career.
Best,
Kim
Hi This is Priya
Iam just 2 years old in mainframes world
Welcome Norma and Priya--you're in good company here.
Hello Kim,
I am 4 years experienced in Mainframes.. I think i have a lonnng way to go...
Hi, this is xboy he has 23 years of mainframe.
HI KIM
I AM WORKING IN A MAINFRAME PLATFORME SINCE 1990 SO ME EXPERIENCE ABOUT 20 YEARS
Hi Kim,
I'm new to this mainframe world with only 14 months of experience in TOPSECRET and RACF .. Long way to go !!!!
Regards,
Madhu
Wow, Madhu, you definitely win the coveted title of newest mainframer here (at least to date). Glad you joined the community. How did you get involved with mainframes? Was that always your career goal or were you recruited into it or ...?
Thanks for sharing your story here.
Kim
Hi Kim,
After finishing my college I took Mainframe system admin training for 4 months then I got placed in IBM . I'm currently working in IBM.
I didn't had any idea about mainframe before I joined the training course , Movie Die hard 4.0 was also one of the reasons for me to get
interest in Mainframe ....
Regards,
Madhu
Congrats on your new career with IBM. I confess I haven't seen Die Hard 4.0--what is the mainframe connection? Also, I think you might have just inspired another discussion topic ...
Thanks Kim , I'm still a Kid right, long long way to go !!! Lot of hacking stuffs in the movie!! Really love those screens with green lines running !!!!
I just looked it up--found it funny that the hacker is the guy from the Apple commercials! If you have other favorite movies (or TV shows) that feature mainframes, list them here.
15 Years, IBM 360/30, IBM 4330, DAS-3, Honeywell 8000, CDC 600, does anyone remember punch cards and the IBM 129?
Hi, Kim.
My first mainframe experience was in operations while going to college, starting in 1968. I worked on UNIVAC III, UNIVAC 1108 and IBM 1130. First programmed in FORTRAN as a student that same year on a CDC 3000. Started programming in COBOL in 1970 on an IBM 360/30 and I've been a COBOL programmer in the Finance and Insurance industry ever since. Mostly batch with some CICS, IMS and, more recently, DB2.
Wow, Bruce. Your list reads like a course in computer history. Thanks for sharing your considerable experience here!
Best,
Kim
Not much experience, but I started as an 1108 operator (Exec-2/Exec-8), learning 1108 assembler, FORTRAN, COBOL, and RPG while I was on it.. After something over a year at that I went into programming, assembly and RPG, on one of their minis, the Univac 9000. Some years later I worked with one of the larger IBM 370s, but only as a user of IMS and CMS, though I did do my PL/I programming homework there as well.
I'd say all of that adds up to experience, Nick. Welcome!
I have been working with the mainframe since 1988, 22 years and counting. Started out in the business and was selected for the programmer training program that was offered...and I'm glad I did! It was the best career move I ever made.
I started working on mainframes in 1979.
First as an operator on LCBIPS (Burroughs - Large Commercial Item Processing System).
The company shortly after switch to IBM's CPCS (Check Processing Control System).
I transitioned to programming after taking college courses in Assembler Language and Cobol).
I programmed in BAL/360/370/390 for nearly 15 years before moving on to CICS/DB2 programming.
I now work on Mainframes as an Implementation Engineer performing installation and configuration of my company's software.
I also work on various flavors of UNIX including USS, AIX, Solaris and Linux. And of course, Windows.
Mainframes rock!
Ray Gayton
San Diego, CA
Welcome, Ray, thanks for sharing your impressively multi-platform experience with us!
My first foray into the swinging swirling world of mainframe processing was as an 079 card sorter operator in 1969 while I was going to college. I was promoted to operator on a 360/40 system. I had that job for about a year. In 1980, I entered the field more permanently, coding assembler, COBOL, DL1, CICS on a 370/168 machine running 128 MB of main memory and 10 partitions. Back then, partitions were so small, we had to use phases to fold programs like Origami to fit! Progressed up through 4300's, 390's and now out of programming, but still involved with our z9 and z10 boxes here. It's still fun!
Origami. Love it. Glad you're still finding the fun, Steven, and thanks for sharing it with us.
(Kim - do forgive me as this is not strictly speaking on topic but I thought somebody reading this thread might be interested.)
I have just found a photocopied copy of CICS Application Programmer's Reference Manual (Macro Level) - known to its (not many) friends as CICS APRM(ML). It's dated July 1987, and the form number is SC33-0079-5. I'm happy to post it book post to anybody who would find it useful (I'm sure there's still a lot of macro-level CICS code around, although I haven't seen any since about about 1986.) Please only reply if you have a genuine use for it.
Thanks, Herb. I will mention it in the newsletter this week and see if there's anyone out there who can use it.
Best,
Kim